Friday, February 8, 2008

When Calling Someone A Heretic

One gets slings and arrows more often than accolades. Rick Warren is one of the most heinous perpetrators of false religion of our time. He never preaches the gospel, he preaches a social gospel and a man centered gospel that makes his hearers feel good about themselves. When he started Saddleback Church he polled the people in the neighborhood and asked them what they wanted in a church. This is absolutely the last thing one should do when beginning a church. It is not what they want in a church but what they need in a church that will save them. I found this post on Absolute Dominion and it reminded me again how much the alarm needs to be sounded. I don't care how much people get offended or mad at me for this I will not stop sounding the alarm until Rick Warren repents and starts to preach the true gospel of Jesus Christ crucified for sinners and resurrected on the third day.






The dark depths in which "Pastor" Rick is willing to plumb in his unbiblical, demonically inspired, UNITY AT ALL COSTS madness is simply breathtaking.

From a biblical perspective Warren's little talk in the clip below constitutes true "hate speech"!

Friends, it's not kindness or love to tell someone who is deathly ill and in desperate need of strong medicine and immediate surgery that they're doing just fine! On the contrary, it's the worst kind of HATE!

It's not God honoring to tell an audience of unbelievers that God is cheering them on in their carnal, fleshly pursuits - whatever those may be!"

click here to continue reading.


Frank said...

Finally, something I could agree with.

Think maybe the reason Warren spouts such nonsense antithetical to the teachings of Scripture because he's a calvinist? ;-) HA! Just had to say that.

Alan said...

Funny, I am glad you can agree with this, Warren is a great danger. I will respond to you on Romans soon, I am coming down with the flu I am afraid and too tired to respond right now, but I will.

00 said...


I thought that you would be interested in this about Joel Osteen:
I don't know about you, but for me, my problem really isn't so much about what he says, it's just that he markets himself as a pastor/preacher, when really he's just a very good motivational speaker. I really do think that he does a GREAT job of motivating people, but that's not preaching the Word...that's not preaching Christ crucified. If he were to simply market himself as a "self-help guru," I don't think that I'd have any problems with him.

Alan said...

That is exactly what Mike Horton and the guys were talking about last week on "The White Horse Inn" You hit the nail on the head, if he would just stop calling himself a pastor and what he does church, I would have no problem with what he is doing.

J. Guy Muse said...

If Rick Warren and those that form Saddleback church are so wrong, why does God continue to bless their ministry with record numbers of salvations and baptisms? Anybody baptizing 2500/year seems to me to be doing exactly what Christ commanded us to do. If our own ministry was reaching even 10% annually of what they are doing, I'd be thrilled.

I am sure Rick Warren has his flaws. I know I have plenty of my own. I dare say you do too! Why spend time and energy pointing out perceived flaws in our brother when you and I both (according to Christ) should be more concerned about the splinter in our own eye?

Coram Deo said...


Thanks for the back link my brother! I pray the alarm will continue to sound about the arch-fiend and heretic "Pastor" Rick Warren.


Your homework assignment tonight, should you choose to accept it, is to brush up on The Visible Church which is comprised of all those who profess Christ, and the Church Invisible which is comprised of those who are true, born again, Spirit-filled Christians.

After you've researched the meaning behind those two terms then please investigate the Two Streams of Christianity that have existed side by side for almost 2,000 years now.

Investigate the parable of the wheat and the tares.

Investigate the parable of the sower of seed.

Investigate the parable of the sheep and the goats.

Investigate those who in Matthew 23 PROFESS CHRIST and are UTTERLY REJECTED by Him in righteous judgment and then prayerfully reflect on your comment about numbers posed by the deceiver, the would-be Protestant Pope Rick Warren, and how you claim that you would be thrilled by a percentage of his statistics.

Then examine yourself that you've not forgotten your first love.

Finally, after all this, please Google Nickels and Noses.

I pray that God would open your eyes to the deception of the spirit of the world that is espoused by Rick Warren and his ecumenical, apostate, devil driven madness.

J. Guy Muse said...

coran deo,

I have been doing your homework assignment as an ongoing project now for several years. Understanding what a NT church is or is not, has been a passion for me.

I would suggest that you might be careful making judgement calls against another professing believer. In the parables of the tares, sower, sheep-goats, I don't think these passages are referring to Rick Warren. What I see is that you are the one ascribing judgement--something I clearly believe is an atribute that only God can do. If you have all the answers, right doctrine, etc. then it stands to reason there will be much spiritual fruit coming forth from your life. Jesus said, By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another. and in Matthew, Jesus says, You will know them by their fruits...every good tree bears good fruit but the rotten tree bears bad fruit...

What I am trying to say is that I would be careful making judgement calls against a fellow brother in Christ whom the Lord is greatly using to impact the world for the cause of Christ. We may not agree with every detail of what they are doing or teaching, but I dare say his life and ministry have impacted more people for the cause of Christ than your life and mine combined.

If you (or Alan) truly have concerns about Warren and his ministry, have you done the Biblical thing--ala Matthew 18:15-17, and gone to Rick himself to try and clear up your these perceived "sins?"

If not, I would say the ones out of line biblically, are those making the public accusations of "Gentile" and "tax-gatherer" without having FIRST gone to the brother in question.

J. Guy Muse said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Coram Deo said...

guymuse said: I would suggest that you might be careful making judgment calls against another professing believer.

Yes, you might suggest that, and I would respond that I've been quite careful - and thorough - in both my research and my comments and I stand firmly by each and every one of them.

But still I wonder; why would you suggest that when the "professing believer" in question unrepentantly spouts manifold heresies and teaches scriptural falsehoods and errors?

guymuse said: What I see is that you are the one ascribing judgment--something I clearly believe is an attribute that only God can do.

You're simply confused here. God alone judges who goes to heaven and hell. God can and will certainly save those whose names have been written in the Lamb's Book of Life from the foundation of the world. I'm not passing eternal heaven/hell judgment on Rick Warren, but I absolutely am judging him by his words and his actions and how those words and actions line up with the infallible, inerrant, inspired, plenary Word of God as contained uniquely within the Holy Bible! And by the way, ALL true Christians are commanded to do the same (see Jude 1:3).

guymuse said: What I am trying to say is that I would be careful making judgment calls against a fellow brother in Christ whom the Lord is greatly using to impact the world for the cause of Christ.

Rick Warren is NOT a fellow brother in Christ. Rick Warren is a demonic dupe, a satanic stooge, and a pawn of the prince of the power of the air. He's a wolf in sheep's clothing that is rending Christ's little flock with his pernicious, abominable, damnable heresy and is leading countless myriads of deceived souls toward the very pit of hell with his false teaching.

Either Rick Warren's man-centered 100% works righteousness false gospel god is God, or the One True Living God of the Holy Bible is God. I profess and claim the latter as my God and utterly reject the false gospel of universalism espoused by Rick Warren.

guymuse said: If you (or Alan) truly have concerns about Warren and his ministry, have you done the Biblical thing--ala Matthew 18:15-17, and gone to Rick himself to try and clear up your these perceived "sins?"

If not, I would say the ones out of line biblically, are those making the public accusations of "Gentile" and "tax-gatherer" without having FIRST gone to the brother in question.

Rick Warren's false statements are a matter of public record. If you've spent as much time as you claim studying the NT church then after reading this misapplication of church discipline I'd humbly suggest that you need to go back and hit the textbooks again.

Are you really saying that you believe Matt. 18 is referring to instances where the "professing believer" in question is a major public figure - and is a *total stranger* - who has made public statements which are verifiably Biblically incorrect, and yet another can't publicly speak (or write) about it without going to said public figure privately first?

What silliness!

Clearly the scriptural admonition here is for settling disputes within the local church - the local body of believers!

Do you privately remonstrate in your heart against the Apostle Paul for withstanding Peter to his face without first writing him a note or visiting him privately prior to publicly rebuking him for his gross error? For your sake I certainly hope not.

I'm forced to ask guymuse, within your spiritual worldview and according to your understanding of the scriptures why is it wrong or objectionable for believers to "make judgment calls" when the "professing believer" in question twists, wrests, and denies the very Words of the Lord Whose blood he claims bought him? Why do you object to doctrinal correction and rebuke of gross sin and error?

Have you ever listened to Rick Warren's false gospel?

Have you ever compared Rick Warren's false teaching to the Holy Bible?

Do you realize that based on the very scriptures regarding fruit and works that you cited Rick Warren must be considered to be an apostate and wholly outside the true Body of Christ? For example:

Did you know Rick Warren is an unrepentant liar?

Did you know that Rick Warren stages massive rallies at his mega church Saddleback to bring awareness to global HIV/AIDS, but studiously avoids any such rallies or mentions about the holocaust of global abortion?

Did you know that Rick Warren is OF the world and world loves him for it?

Did you know that Rick Warren openly engages in ecumenical exchange with Islam, and not for the purpose of spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ, but for building "common ground" between the "Abrahamic Faiths"?

Did you know that Rick Warren teaches that DISUNITY is Satan's greatest weapon?

Did you know that Rick Warren promotes New Age mysticism and contemplative prayer which are pagan and idolatrous?

Did you realize that heretics of a feather flock together and Rick Warren embraces a veritable Who's Who of apostates, heretics, and blasphemers? Again, IN NONE OF THESE INSTANCES does "Pastor" Rick bother to share the eternal gospel of Jesus Christ so let's not pretend that he's merely "building relationships" so he can slip them the a "gospel Mickey" when they least suspect it. Rick love rubbing elbows and glad-handing with the power brokers, movers and shakers, and "big names" of this fallen world.

In all of this he demonstrates that he is just like his father the devil.

You can see and hear the apostate Rick Warren deny the Biblical truth of salvation by grace through faith alone (Sola Fide) and teach a man-centered religion of works righteousness (the law) with your own eyes and ears in this short video.

Is this what the Reformers died for? Did Christian martyrs give their lives so that liars and thieves like Rick Warren could enslave men and lead them back to the damnable doctrines of Rome? Does the evildoer Rick Warren realize that the Pope could happily preach this precise sermon to a Catholic audience and be in full agreement with its content?

Warrenism = Ecumenism = Rome


Unity at all costs.

Unity at the expense of truth.

It would be understandable for the non-discerning to come to Warren's defense and say, "Hey, Pastor Rick just wants unity for the Body of Christ, that's a good thing, that's something God desires and something we ought to be working toward!" Yet the truth is that all regenerate, truly born-again Christians are already in spiritual unity together in Christ; this is the mystery of the true church, the true Bride of Christ!

No my friend, Warren is so obsessed with a false temporal unity obtained at the expense of Biblical truth that he's willing in his capacity as Protestant Pope to excommunicate serious, discerning, Christ-centered brothers and sisters in Lord in order to ensure the absolute, unquestioned authority of his Purpose Driven Pulpit Puppets - those who will undoubtedly soon be known as his "Bishops". Amazingly Warren is so eager to spiritually prostitute himself to his idol god unity that he's signed an open letter to Muslims extolling the common virtues of the Christian and Islamic faiths emphasizing "the absolutely central commonality between both religions: love of God and love of neighbor".

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. (Revelation 3:16)

Warren's non-gospel of nothingness is in fact the bondage of religious works righteousness. In Warren's upside down spiritual world men are to earn "rewards" from God Almighty based upon their works of righteousness in the flesh. This is so far removed from the truth of Christianity as to make the Gospel According to Pastor Rick another gospel.

The men-in-skirts spiritual sissies that pass for "Christian leaders" in these last days aren't interested in divisive things like taking a stand on scripture, doctrine, or a bunch of dusty old creeds!

"Why be divisive"? This was Rick Warren's actual response when asked about the fact that his pastor-training programs welcome Catholics, Methodists, Mormons, Jews and ordained women.

“I’m not going to get into a debate over the non-essentials. I won’t try to change other denominations. Why be divisive?” he asks.

Egads man! Look, if the gospel itself is a non-essential to Rick Warren - and it is in both word and deed - then nothing else is left to debate.

Nothing else matters.

Elvis has left the building.

I can only give Rick Warren the benefit of the doubt that he actually is an apostate. But I must admit that I'm becoming increasingly convinced that he doesn't even qualify for that ignominious title because I'm not sure he was ever a true Christian believer/pastor/teacher in the first place.

He's providing more and more evidence that he may have always been a cultist.

I wonder how quickly his fawning media coverage would vaporize if he insisted on having rallies in favor of ending abortion at Saddleback instead of a warm and fuzzy conversation about A.I.D.S?

I wonder how suddenly his status as "America's Pastor" would evaporate if he were adamant about organizing every church and every church member to mobilize their resources to run the aborturaries out of their communities?

I wonder how immediately his invitations to appear on prime time television talk shows would disappear if he had dedicated as much time speaking out against the blood of millions of innocents flowing from their mother's wombs as he's spent shilling his social gospel of works righteousness?

May the Lord of Hosts open the eyes of Rick Warren and his itching ears followers, hirelings and hangers-on before it's too late!

J. Guy Muse said...

Coram Deo,

Wow, what a response! You obviously take this stuff seriously. Where do you find all the time to dig up all this material about RW? I ought to hire you as my research assistant here in Ecuador for our people group! :)

Since you have gone to so much trouble to make your points, I actually took a few moments to click on a good number of your links to try and get an idea of what it is that upsets you so much about our Bro. Rick.

My only observation is to remind you that our struggle is not against flesh and blood (Rick Warren), but against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places...

By continuing to lash out at a brother with whom you obviously have differences, you are doing the devil's work for him for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. Accusation of the brethren before God is what Satan does. Don't be his helper!

My own feeling is that my time and energy is better spent, not by tracking down and exposing all those with whom I disagree, but by focusing and giving my life to obeying those parts of the Word that are clear: The Great Commandment, the Great Commission, Seeking First His Kingdom, etc. I choose to leave the rest to God and let Him be the judge.

I really don't see that any of this is very edifying or Christlike. What good do you hope to accomplish for the Kingdom by continuing this line of attack against a brother? Even Christ forgave those who crucified him. Why do you lash out in such anger towards your brother? Has RW done you wrong in some way?

I would encourage you to fix your eyes on Jesus, not Rick Warren. Let's focus on preaching the Gospel to those who are lost and on their way to hell. How many people have you witnessed to this week? How many disciples have you made in obedience to Matt. 28? These are the things that we should "obsess" about. Leave RW to God, and start looking at your own life and what kind of witness, salt and light you are before God who loved a lost and dying world so much that He gave his Son Jesus so that we might be saved.

If you should choose, I will let you have any "last word". This will be my final response to this thread. May God grant you an abundance of His grace, peace, love, joy, patience, and blessings.

Coram Deo said...

guymuse - Since you insist on claiming him then let it be known that your "Bro. Rick" is not my brother in the Lord. On the basis of Rick Warren's indisputable and unrepentant heresy I completely reject and deny that accusation.

So long as the Lord Jesus tarries I shall continue to expose the error of Rick Warren and his apostate ilk until such time as they repent and turn away from their rank heresies.

And you should understand that I'm not "lashing out" at anyone as you misinterpret, quite the contrary. It's my heart's desire that false teachers like Rick Warren would publicly repent so that their myriads of deceived followers might be turned away from the broad path to destruction upon which they currently travel and onto the narrow way that leads to Christ. To be quite honest it grieves my spirit that men like you would be so quick to dismiss the spiritual gravity of the situation based on...what? On nothing of substance, but rather on subjective feelings and on the misguided belief that Rick Warren's false converts to a false gospel are actually true, born-again, regenerate Christians!

The sheer folly is breathtaking!

What was your response to the evidence presented that Rick Warren is not even a Christian in the historical, orthodox sense of the word? You responded by confirming that he's your Bro. Rick! Don't you find it the least bit troubling that you seem to be blinded by Rick Warren's cult of personality? Are Christ's commands and the whole counsel of God to be treated like a wax nose that can simply be adjusted and manipulated to suit our personal tastes and preferences?

You suggest that my eyes ought to be fixed on Jesus and I couldn't agree more! I pray for this daily! Help me Lord!

My eyes are firmly fixed on Jesus Christ sir, and oh! His glory!

It's unspeakable!

His holiness!

It's unfathomable

His mercy!

It's boundless!

His righteousness!

It's a consuming fire!

His presence!

I'm eaten up with the zeal of the Lord!

For you see guymuse, it's Him and His Word that Rick Warren maligns, denies, and blasphemes with his heretical and destructive teachings!

Oh! How I tremble for Rick Warren and his deceived adherents, sycophants, hirelings and hangers-on!

Oh! How they're heaping hot coals upon their heads for their abomination and defaming of the Holy One of Israel, the Ancient of Days!

Oh! That someone might tell them, that they might still repent and turn away from the precipice upon which they dance! That someone might pull them back from their teetering upon the brink of eternal damnation and hell fire!

And still you would ask what wrong Rick Warren has ever done to me?

Well, this time Rick Warren was actually right about ONE THING, it's not about me!

These wrongs against my God and my Savior are much, much deeper than ANY WRONG Rick Warren could ever inflict upon a wretched, unworthy, helpless mass of sin and corruption as myself.

You frequently ask "how many and how much?" in a deriding manner as though the numbers were more important than the truth. In point of fact this is precisely what Rick Warren teaches and is fixated upon - nickels and noses.

Is this what you say to the faithful remnant who labor in obscurity tending to Christ's little flock - "I hold you in derision until you meet or exceed Rick Warren's numbers!"?

Is this your narrow, myopic view of the Christian life - that we ought to be comparing ourselves to one another as we run our race in direct contravention to the Biblical admonition of the inspired Apostle Paul?

If so, then I truly feel sorry for you.

Please know that I have been lifting you up in prayer since our first exchange that the Lord of Glory might open your eyes to and free you from the deception under which you currently seem to labor.

Satan is the accuser of the brethren, however Rick Warren is not among the brethren being those who are true, historical, orthodox, Bible believing Christians. As I've previously stated Rick Warren is OF THE WORLD and has no part in the kingdom of God unless he repents of his sin and trespass and abandons his false gospel of works-righteousness and universalism in favor of and in humble submission to the eternal, immutable Gospel of Jesus Christ as contained within the Holy Bible.

In the light of inspired scripture I flatly and plainly accuse the arch-fiend Rick Warren of heresy, blasphemy, and of being a false teacher and have provided copious indisputable evidence from Rick Warren's own mouth proving these serious, terrible charges.

Satan accuses without merit because he is a liar. The true Christian is called to earnestly contend for the faith that was once delivered unto the saints because destructive heresies will arise within the church and false teachers will rend Christ's little flock from within (again, see Jude).

Let Us Not Grow Weary in Well Doing

I found the message written by A.W. Tozer quoted below to be of no small comfort as it seems that a life devoted to the Lord Jesus Christ that endeavors to adhere to the lofty standards He sets forth often encounters conflict upon conflict with the very professing church which claims His Name!

In surveying the sad state of today’s apostate evangelical church I’m reminded of the Pharisees of Jesus day which outwardly appeared righteous but who were in truth full of ravening and wickedness. The barren, desolate spiritual landscape of professing Christianity is a wretched reminder of the predictable result each time man perverts the Word of God. When the counsel of God Almighty is exchanged in whole or in part for utilitarian political agendas, false temporal “peace”- so called -, or ecumenical unity you can rest assured that the judgment of God will quickly follow.

The Christian God, Creator and Judge of heaven and earth will not honor a man-centered false gospel, for His name is Jealous and He is jealous for His bride.

In today’s climate of “anything goes” evangelical easy-believism unsuspecting millions have been fed a poisonous pseudo-gospel message that measures on how man feels as opposed to measuring upon the immutable, unchanging, absolute Word of God. The existential root of this evil tree can be traced back to the fountainhead of ecumenical deceit; the Roman Catholic Church. Rome’s twisted theology is subjective and mysterious, complicated and contradictory, while the revealed Word of God is eminently objective and forthright. The wickedness of Mystery Babylon is clearly seen in her highly ritualized masses, vain repetition, idolatrous Eucharistic adoration and blasphemous worship of the created instead of the Creator.

The leaven of Rome has crept into the American evangelical church through heresy mongers such as Rick Warren, Joel Osteen, Rob Bell and many, many others. Unfortunately the church is ripe for these ravening wolves who seek to rend the flock because of its weak-kneed effeminate leadership.

Where are the Davids who will oppose the spiritual Goliaths that threaten the Lord’s little flock?

Where are the Elijas who will stand boldly before wicked Ahab and proclaim the Word of God?

Where are the watchmen upon the wall who will sound the alarm in Zion?

I for one say “Here am I, send me!” It’s no longer a matter of being labeled as “divisive”, or “contentious”. It’s time for men of God to stand up and earnestly contend for the faith.

Taking action will mean the loss of your comfort zone. Taking action may mean the loss of friendships, churches or even ministries for some, but God will honor those who honor Him, and He will utterly reject those who esteem the praise of men or worldly goods higher than they esteem the praise of God Almighty!

Choose this day whom you will serve.

Below is the excerpt from Tozer’s foreword to Leonard Ravenhill’s book “Why Revival Tarries”. I hope reading it brings you as much encouragement as it brought me:

Great industrial concerns have in their employ men who are needed only when there is a breakdown somewhere. When something goes wrong with the machinery, these men spring into action to locate and remove the trouble and get the machinery rolling again. For these men a smoothly operating system has no interest. They are specialists concerned with trouble and how to find and correct it. In the Kingdom of God things are not too different. God had always had His specialists whose chief concern has been the moral breakdown, the decline in the spiritual health of the nation or the church. Such men were Elijah, Jeremiah, Malachi and others of their kind who appeared at critical moments in history to reprove, rebuke, and exhort in the name of God and righteousness. A thousand or ten thousand ordinary Old Testament priests or New Testament pastors and teachers could labor quietly on almost unnoticed while the spiritual life of Israel or the Church was normal. But let the people of God go astray from the paths of truth and immediately the specialist appeared almost out of nowhere. His instinct for trouble brought him to the help of the Lord and of Israel.

Such a man was likely to be drastic, radical, possibly at times violent, and the curious crowd that gathered to watch him work soon branded him as extreme, fanatical, negative. And in a sense they were right. He was single-minded, severe, fearless, and these were the qualities the circumstances demanded. He shocked some, frightened others and alienated not a few, but he knew Who had called him and what he was sent to do. His ministry was geared to the emergency, and that fact marked him out as different, a man apart.

Those who know Leonard Ravenhill will recognize in him the religious specialist, the man sent from God not to carry on the conventional work of the Church, but to beard the priests of Baal on their own mountaintop, to shame the careless priest at the altar, to face the false prophet and warn the people who are being led astray by him.

Such a man as this is not an easy companion. The professional evangelist who leaves the wrought-up meeting as soon as it ends to hurry over to the most expensive restaurant to feast and crack jokes with his sponsors will find this man something of an embarrassment, for he cannot turn off the burden of the Holy Ghost as one would turn off a faucet. He insists upon being a Christian all the time, everywhere; and again, that marks him out as different.

Toward Leonard Ravenhill it is impossible to be neutral. His acquaintances are divided pretty neatly into two classes, those who love him out of all proportion and those who hate him with perfect hatred. And what is true of the man is sure to be true of his books, of this book. The reader will either close its pages to seek a place of prayer or he will toss it away in anger, his heart closed to its warnings and appeals.